Gay.com Stands Shoulder To Shoulder With George Michael

Mark James has has written a piece in Gay.com in support of the way George Michael chooses to live his life, and suggests that it’s time the community stands shoulder to shoulder with him.

As a staight male, I must say I’ve been quite surprised by the number of gay men that have been quick to express their disapproval of George’s alleged behaviour in recent days. To be honest, I have difficulty believing the disapproval is real. Why? Because I agree with George that almost all men, gay and straight, can well understand the attraction of “no-strings”, anonymous sex.

Of course, many women are attracted by this idea too. However, the reason that straight men don’t indulge in straight cruising, is because they don’t have the opportunity to – not enough women are interested.

I promise you, if the bushes on Hampstead Heath were full of straight women wanting anonymous sex at two o’clock in the morning, you wouldn’t be able to move for straight men!

74 thoughts on “Gay.com Stands Shoulder To Shoulder With George Michael

  1. I thought the piece was a nice read. The comments -many of them are based on the lies – again. (No Kenny did NOT call off the “wedding”)

  2. I’m not a gay man so I can’t speak for them, but I do kind of understand their annoyance even though I also approve of cruising. THey as a group are trying to get mainstreamed and accepted, so stereotypical behavior like cruising doesn’t help their cause. As I said, they got really annoyed by the “This is my culture” line — they thought it was rather presumptuous that GM speak for all of them. And they don’t want a spokesperson who is portrayed in the tabloids in such a negative way. A really good summation of this can be found at: http://www.afterelton.com/columns/2006/7/lastgayword.html

  3. @ Yogchick

    “Get mainstream and accepted”? By whom? Gay people are already accepted in “mainstream” society; although, of course, homophobic attitudes still exist. What needs to change is the homophobia, not the behaviour of gay men.

    Like George, I simply don’t understand why people are so quick to judge, and seemingly to demand that he changes his behaviour. It simply isn’t rational to disapprove of other people’s sex-lives in this way – a person’s sex-life is a personal, private matter that impacts pretty much only those they have sexual encounters with.

    What other people do, in the privacy of their own homes, and in the privacy of bushes of Hampstead Heath in the middle of the night, is nothing to do with anyone else.

  4. I disagree that gays are fully accepted by the mainstream — they can’t even get married in the U.S. for crying out loud. As for “the privacy of bushes of Hampstead Heath (a public place)” — isn’t that oxymoronic?

  5. Yes, it’s true that civil partnerships aren’t possible in the US. However, isn’t that due to the rather powerful, fundamentalist Christian element in US society (which includes your President)? I don’t class those people as “mainstream”. I class them as extremist; and certainly they are generally viewed as such in the Western world outside of the US.

    As for my saying that the bushes of Hampstead Heath are private at 2am. Well, I don’t think that’s an oxymoron. Imagine yourself walking down a sub-urban street at 2am. Everyone would be asleep in bed. No-one would see you in that street. Providing you were quiet, you could effectively do whatever you wanted on that (public) street, in complete private.

    The point is – no-one is going to see anything going on, on Hampstead Heath at 2am, unless they’re positively looking for it…

  6. @ remarkable: Yeah, yeah. We could go on and on. As I said, I’m not against cruising in principal anyway.

    But back to George. He blabbed on and on about his cruising and how much he loves it (“I’m a suburban cruiser myself”) and then is shocked that photographers are following him around trying to catch him at it. I KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN and I felt nervous for him as recently as 2 years ago when he was promoting Patience. In a perfect world, GM could talk about it all he wanted and not be harrassed by the press, but let’s deal with the cold hard fact that he’s a celebrity and should know this game by now.

    I already explained this ad nauseum on the 10 TIPS thread over at GMF. If you’re in a public place,at any time of the day, expect to be photographed if you’re a celebrity. If you want to keep things private, go inside. This must really piss off GM because he seems to really love outdoor cruising — the outdoors part is the turn-on. But if he loved it so much, he should have protected it to by not talking about it so openly to the press. Now he’s dealing with the repurcussions. Will he ever be able to freely cruise again? Who knows.

  7. Well, I didn’t read your threads over at GMF. However, you do seem rather to be missing the point. It is simply NOT ACCEPTABLE for the press to print damaging lies about anyone – celebrity or otherwise; neither is acceptable for the press to harass people. That’s why we have libel laws and harassment laws.

  8. The tabloids printing lies about someone?! No, really?!! Of course it’s acceptable, it’s been going on for years and will probably never change. Is it fair, right, ethical — of course not. But it’s money and publicity and it gets people like us talking on boards, chatrooms, the water cooler at work. Compared to all the crap that’s going right now in international affairs, this is SO INCONSEQUENTIAL. At this point, I’m ready to say it’s a non-issue. And if you read my comment from the other day, GM isn’t the only celebrity who’s had lies printed about him maliciously. Kate Moss and Jude Law have had it worse, IMHO, and they’re not suing anybody. GM and many of his fans are acting like this is the first time something like this has ever happened. It’s not and it won’t be the last. That’s the price of celebrity.

    Frankly, if GM cared a little more about the quality of his actual personal life and less about the image projected of him through the press, we’d all have a little more music and something more substantive to talk about. It’s come to the point where talking about GM means not talking about his recent output, rather about his media problems and legal squirmishes. THis is not what I became a GM fan for.

  9. Finally, how are these lies damaging? So he’s allegedly having relationship problems — how is that damaging? The most damaging aspect of all this is the truth — he got caught cruising again and in the minds of many, that’s not cool. I don’t agree with that, but that is the perception out there. I really don’t understand how he thinks he has a case. Maybe if he can prove he’s been tailgated for 2 months straight, yeah, that’s harassment. But the rest? Come on. There’s no way he can prove his career was damaged becauase the public thinks a wedding was called off. That’s just ridiculous.

  10. What are you talking about? You might at least try to get your facts straight.

    Kate Moss doesn’t sue for libel? Eh? In July 2005, Kate sued the Sunday Mirror for libel over allegations about her cocaine use. She won the case. Of course, in Septemeber 2005, the Mirror newspaper then published the infamous video of her using cocaine (not 100% sure about those dates, BTW, but it was around then). She was hardly going to sue over the video, was she?

    And you think Jude Law doesn’t worry about the press printing defamatory articles about him? He just lets it all wash over him because “it’s the price of celebrity” does he? I don’t think so. Jude Law uses this law firm ( http://www.carter-ruck.com/ ) which specialises in defamation law, libel law and slander law. Hell, he was even threatening to sue the News Of The World in 2005.

    You are also quite wrong about papers printing lies being acceptable: printing defamatory lies about *anyone* is simply not acceptable. At least not in the eyes of the law, it isn’t. Many, many celebrities successfully sue newspapers for libel. If you don’t understand why the stories that have been printed in the press about George in the last week or two are damaging, then I’m sorry – you simply have poor judgement.

    Oh, and by the way, George Michael does not have to prove that these stories have damaged his career. If he could, it would massively up the bill for damages. However, all he needs to do is prove something like “embarassment” or “distress”. If you saw George on the ITV news, or read my transcript, you will see that there is, in the public domain, clear video evidence that he was distressed by these stories. If you heard George’s Richard and Judy interview, or read my transcript, you will also see that the press printed 100% certifiable lies about George.

    As far as I can see, this is about as open and shut a case of libel as you could get. Seems that the press walked right into this one. The only question in my mind is: how much money should George try to take them for?

    I think the simple truth, Yogchick, is that you disapprove of George’s behaviour. I do wonder why…

  11. If by “behavior” you mean his current lawsuit streak, yes, I do disapprove. I think it’s a waste of time, energy, money, etc. And I’m sorry I wasn’t as up on the legalistic shenanigans of Kate Moss and Judge Law — I just pulled those 2 celebrities randomly as an example. My fault for not doing the research, but frankly, I couldn’t be bothered.

    My point was, lies get printed every day and in GM’s case, it’s hardly anything different.

    I guess I have poor judgment. Explain to me how the lies are damaging. The lies I’m referring to are 1. The wedding has been called off and 2. their relationship is in trouble. (In other words, the same two things said about every celebrity couple no matter what.) Oh, and the third lie being he had sex with that unemployed, ugly, fat van driver (as opposed to whoever he really got it on with moments before the pictures were taken). Okay, so how are those 3 things really damaging? Seriously, explain to me why they would cause distress or whatever. Because I guess I’m a dumb AMerican and just don’t get it.

  12. No – by “behaviour”, I mean – the way he lives his life. Why do I think that? It’s because you wrote, “if GM cared a little more about the quality of his actual personal life…” That statement strongly suggests you don’t think much of the way he conducts his personal life.

    As for explaining why the stories printed in the press have been damaging to George. Perhaps if you tried to empathize with George a little, it might help you to understand. Also, you might want to think about words and phrases like, “reputation”, “decreases the respect in which a person is held”, “inducing disparaging feelings towards a person”. It’s not a difficult one, this – in fact, it’s kind of a no-brainer…

  13. When someone goes on and on talking about depression and their extensive cannabis habit, then falls asleep at the wheel of a busy intersection, then bunks three cars and drives away, then goes on television and says “I’ve done nothing illegal this year” and then sues the press for allegations hardly worth remembering, YES, I DO THINK THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THAT PERSON’S PERSONAL LIFE.

    By your own example, phrases like, “reputation”, “decreases the respect in which a person is held”, “inducing disparaging feelings towards a person” — well, none of these are applicable to the allegations of having a wedding cancelled or having relationship problems. Do you really think that because of the tabloids people are going around saying, “Oh I feel such a loss of respect for GM because the wedding is off” OR “I can’t help but feel disparagement toward GM now that I hear he has relationship problems.” If he’s had a loss in reputation and increase in disparagement, it’s because of the pictures of him leaving the park and cruising in the first place — AND HE’S NOT EVEN SUING ABOUT THAT.

    LIBEL law was created for extreme, intentionally hurtful allegations such as pedophilia, bestiality, rape, murder, child abuse, animal abuse — you know, the kind of things that really hurt a reputation. A cancelled wedding and relationship problems are hardly in this category. In fact, the difference here is really a no-brainer.

  14. Quote Yogchick- If he’s had a loss in reputation and increase in disparagement, it’s because of the pictures of him leaving the park and cruising in the first place — AND HE’S NOT EVEN SUING ABOUT THAT.-
    …….

    It’s quite apparent that you disapprove of cruising, that’s pretty clear. It’s not my cup of tea either, however I’m in favour of people living their lives their own way, including George, as long as they’re not harming anyone. If George would never have spoken about the fact he likes to cruise, the press would be following him around anyway and printed about this ‘scandal’. Imagine being a celeb, what would you do? Would it stop you from doing the things you wanted to do? We’re all human beings … I don’t buy this stuff some people are writing about him ‘asking’ for it .He might as well stay indoors 24/7… For some people cruising is part of their way of life and is as normal as having a cup of tea for breakfast .I don’t have to see it, but that doesn’t mean I condone it. On the contrary! We live in a free world, supposedly. Live and let live.Only a small section of Hampstead Heath has been a place for yonks where gays go cruising.It is known for it.If it was forbidden, they would have sealed off the park at night many, many years ago.

    Btw. The lies could definitely harm (or have harmed) his reputation. Reputation is everything to someone in the spotlight. Not so long ago, George said that most people(or his fans, not sure) do not believe everything that is written about him. Actually I disagree, most people do, unless he says otherwise. And he must be getting really fed up with defending himself all the time. George is totally right to sue, not only because of the lies about him, but because Kenny was dragged into it as well.
    Anyway, I’m glad there’s been support from other-more sensible- media on this.
    ………

    Quote Yogchick-“I’ve done nothing illegal this year”-
    ……..
    Yogchick, I’d really take this comment with a pinch of salt. I thought that was funny! George has still got his sense of humor, and thankfully so…;)

    @ Remarkable: Well done on your refreshing blog entries this past week!

  15. Oops, *slight* mistake ‘that doesn’t mean I condone it’ should be ‘that doesn’t mean I disappove of it’.

  16. Lizzy: Do you even READ what I write? I must have said it about 10 times that I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH CRUISING. Where and how are you getting the impression that I “have a problem with cruising”?!! When I said, “If he’s had a loss in reputation and increase in disparagement, it’s because of the pictures of him leaving the park and cruising in the first place,” it’s because that’s the truth — but that does not mean I condone that perception.

    As for the “I’ve done nothing illegal this year” statement he made on the BBC, um, I’m afraid I cannot take that with a pinch of salt. If you look at the tape, he was dead serious and earnest when he said it –laughable as that is! Anyway, I don’t think it’s such a big deal because he was obviously nervous and feeling defensive. His illegalities, as far as we know, are harmless anyway.

    GM is greatly upset because he feels the public now views him as the “bad guy” in the relationship who was cheating, etc, when in fact their relationship is fine. But consider the general public reaction if they knew the fuller story: they have an open relationship, Kenny knows GM cruises and is fine with it. Would public reaction be any better? If and when he comes out with that information, he’ll find his reputation and “public regard” in no better place than it was with the libelous statements. They’ll just both look like sluts from the closed-minded public. So who wins then? Again, the homophobic press. This is why the gay community isn’t supporting GM as much as they would, say, Olympic diver Greg Louganis or recently “out” Lance Bass. Believe me, it’s just a short step from “cheating, cruising George” to “tawdry, hedonistic gay couple having group orgies on Hampstead Estate.” You’ll see.

  17. Lizzy: Do you even READ what I write? I must have said it about 10 times that I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH CRUISING. Where and how are you getting the impression that I “have a problem with cruising”?!! When I said, “If he’s had a loss in reputation and increase in disparagement, it’s because of the pictures of him leaving the park and cruising in the first place,” it’s because that’s the truth — but that does not mean I condone that perception.

    Alright, calm down, dear. It’s just the impression I got from reading your post, because you’re saying it’s damaged his reputation because of the pics of him leaving the park. Why would that damage his reputation? Are you saying ,in a roundabout way, lots of people disapprove of him cruising then and think less of him? I don’t see it that way at all, and I don’t think George finds that to be the biggest problem(apart from the fact that the photographers have been following him around ofcourse and in the end they’re just pics of him…indeed leaving the park, nothing else) . It’s the lies that have been printed with the pics.

  18. Well, from what I’ve been reading in the British press, it sounds like a lot of people have a problem with cruising. Perhaps it’s envy on the part of unhappily married straight men, I don’t know.

    As for the park pictures, I think they’re pretty convincing that he just had a shag or whatever. No big deal. Unless GM just likes walking around a park by himself in the middle of the night, which would be kind of weird.

    As for the lies that have been printed with the pics…I wonder if GM would be as upset if the alleged “witness” was a really good looking hunk. I really think that because the guy is old and ugly, it really annoys GM that people may think he would have such poor taste. With the way society is so ageist and body-fascist, that certainly would be “inducing disparaging feelings toward a person.” 🙂

  19. I think you may start to feel the same frustration that George feels. They don’t understand me! I’ve been excommunicated but I’ve done nothing wrong other than speaking ”the truth”! People who agree with me=smart – those who don’t =stupid! That’s NOT what I said! Using a lot of words on as many fronts a possible.
    I think we just have to accept that we’ll never agree about this.

  20. @Yogchick

    One of your problems is that you’re so badly informed on so many issues, that your opinions have been formed based on a whole variety of totally incorrect assumptions. Another issue you have is that it appears you are unable read and comprehend explanations that show clearly why you are wrong about a given issue. Nevertheless, I will try to give you some more information about libel.

    You say:

    “LIBEL law was created for extreme, intentionally hurtful allegations such as pedophilia, bestiality, rape, murder, child abuse, animal abuse — you know, the kind of things that really hurt a reputation.”

    No. It wasn’t. Why would you think this? Why do you hold such strong opinions on subjects about which you know nothing? Anyway, here are some examples of the reasons why some celebrities have successfully sued the media for libel. See if these cases meet your definition of “damaging”.

    o Elton John won a libel case against the Sunday Times, the basis of which was that the paper printed that he behaved in an arrogant manner at a party, instructing guests not to talk to him unless he spoke to them first.

    o Nicole Kidman won a libel case against The Daily Mail, the basis of which was that the paper printed that she had had an affair with Jude Law, and that was the reason that Sadie Frost decided to split with Jude Law.

    o Teri Hatcher won a libel case against The Daily Sport, the basis of which was that the paper printed that she likes to have sex in her VW Camper Van.

    o Kate Hudson won a libel case against the National Enquirer, the basis of which was that the magazine printed she was too thin, and that her mother wanted her to eat more.

    Now, the present situation that George faces, is that several papers have printed a whole variety of lies. George’s lawyers will have to work out which lies would be regarded as most defamatory by the courts, and why; and which lies it will be easiest to prove are lies. There’s a lot to sort out there. At the end of that process, George will need to make decisions on which papers he sues, and over which allegations.

  21. Re, Elton John, Nicole Kidman, Teri Hatcher and Kate Hudson. It just goes to prove that celebrities have more money than sense! Some of these ‘allegations’ sound like the things kids say to one another in school!
    I’m sorry, but I agree with yogchick…if George had done whatever he had to do behind closed doors, none of this would have happened. Since the days of Frank Sinatra and maybe before, right back to Rudolph Valentino, celebrities have been followed, photographed and had the ins and outs of their private lives scrutinized by the press. That’s the Devil’s Contract George signed years ago when he and Andrew Ridgley first decided they wanted to be famous. Now George goes on TV and says ‘you can’t print lies about me’. What makes him think he’s so special? And if he doesn’t want his friends and family dragged into a debate about his sex life…maybe he shouldn’t conduct his sex life in a public place. But then what do I know? Acording to George, as I’m a straight female, I shouldn’t be allowed an opinion on this at all!!😦

  22. “Some of these ‘allegations’ sound like the things kids say to one another in school! It just goes to show…”

    Well, the courts decided that these allegations were defamatory and awarded damages. It seems the courts don’t share your and Yogchick’s opinions. And, just in case it has escaped your notice, it is the opinion of the court that matters if you want to prevail in a case of libel; not the opinion of you and Yogchick.

    “Now George goes on TV and says ‘you can’t print lies about me’. What makes him think he’s so special?”

    Who says he thinks he’s special? Why do you think that George Michael shouldn’t be entitled to the same protection that the law affords others? Printing defamatory statements about a person is illegal, and the legal remedy is for that person to sue the people and organisations involved for libel. If George wants to sue for libel, he can hardly be called unique or “special” in that regard.

    By the way, George did not say that you, as a straight woman, weren’t allowed an opinion on the subject of gay cruising (which is what you implied). In fact, he specifically said that he respected the opinions of straight women on this.

  23. “Yogchick Says:
    Well, from what I’ve been reading in the British press, it sounds like a lot of people have a problem with cruising.”

    That’s exactly the point, isn’t it? That’s what’s being said in the media. Usually, in general, people who agree with something do not feel the urge to speak up as strongly as people who disagree with something. Also, this just shows what the media chooses to print and chooses to ignore.

  24. Thank you, Remarkable.

    Your posts are well thought out and logical and fact based. What a breath of fresh air!

  25. Quote Yogchick – “Well, from what I’ve been reading in the British press, it sounds like a lot of people have a problem with cruising.”

    Certainly a lot of the tabloid press seem to have a problem with it, but that may be driven from higher echelons than we will ever know about, or indeed may be their own thoughts (do they have any?). The real problem here seems to be the press conveniently thinking (when it suits their current moral crusade) that they are representing public opinion, much like politicians do when they have an opinion they feel the need to justify. They use us (the public) as unwitting cohorts in the journalistic (or political) individuals current flight of fancy, or target for personal frustration relief (they MUST be jealous of him, as they surely pay big bucks for the straight equivalent..) Or in other words, they write a load of gossip for our publicly gullible devourment.
    At least George is quite open about his own particular method of frustration relief, and its free! Well one assumes so…

    —————

    Remarkable, some well researched, and balanced blogging here it seems, so well done from me!

  26. Quote Caff – “That’s the Devil’s Contract George signed years ago when he and Andrew Ridgley first decided they wanted to be famous.”

    With all respect to you caff, I think that is the kind of comment people in the press would likely use at a party or down the pub, when justifying unwarranted attacks on anyone famous. No-one should have the right to print untruths for personal profit. In reality, the press should be reporting as responsibly and objectively as possible. When I was a child, some of these celeb magazines or tabloids MAY have been entertaining to read for a few minutes, but mostly they are irrelevant and quite obnoxious these days. Gossip becomes like the drip drip drip of a leaking tap, which is to say – very repetitive, and throwaway wasteful. In my experience, those interested in tabloid or magazine tittle tattle, are either extremely bored (boring?) or have little in life to comfort them, thereby making revelling in others personal misery somehow ‘entertaining’. What morality are we encouraging in society, when celebs become the convenient reflection of all societies ills (it seems), for the convenience of extremely lazy journalism.

    So rather than encouraging this rubbish and the too few court cases that ensue, there should be a concerted effort by ALL celebs to sue for misrepresentation/libel/slander/harassment, when it has occured. Hopefully to encourage good old fashioned and well researched and thought provoking journalism!

    Or maybe it would be easier to just ban tabloids and so called celeb mags…

  27. @ Remarkable: REmarkable said, “By the way, George did not say that you, as a straight woman, weren’t allowed an opinion on the subject of gay cruising (which is what you implied). In fact, he specifically said that he respected the opinions of straight women on this.”

    See the ITV interview where GM told the reporter he said, “… and I’m sorry, but we (the gay community) should not be taking questions like this from, straight women in particular.”

    But on all other counts, I wave a white flag. I guess it’s a lot easier to sue in the UK than in the US.

  28. @ Remarkable
    “By the way, George did not say that you, as a straight woman, weren’t allowed an opinion on the subject of gay cruising (which is what you implied). In fact, he specifically said that he respected the opinions of straight women on this”

    From the very lips of Mr George Michael himself, acording to your transcript…

    “Please don’t tell me, as a member of the straight community, that I am taking risks. I know what I do; and I’m sorry, but we (the gay community) should not be taking questions like this from, straight women in particular.”

    Sorry, as a woman it’s obvious I don’t have any brains so as men, could you and George explain exactly what he meant by this comment?

    I think I like the “in particular” bit best?!

    “Well, the courts decided that these allegations were defamatory and awarded damages. It seems the courts don’t share your and Yogchick’s opinions. And, just in case it has escaped your notice, it is the opinion of the court that matters if you want to prevail in a case of libel; not the opinion of you and Yogchick.”

    These celebs can sue for whatever they want to…it’s not my money! If some over priced lawyer want’s to take them for every penny they have…that’s their problem! However I do take exception to your patronizing tone to both yogchick and I…ahh…but then it’s cause we’re women isn’t it?

    What changed your tune, Remarkable? I remember you slagging George off with the best of them! Now you reply to these comments, like you’ve been personally insulted! Did you have a ‘conversion on the Road To Highgate’?!

  29. @Caff

    “Sorry, as a woman it’s obvious I don’t have any brains so as men, could you and George explain exactly what he meant by this comment?”

    LOL! I don’t think George will comment, but I will. First, though, let me quote something from earlier in the interview you refer to. George said,

    “I think women almost never understand this phenomenon, and I totally respect that.”

    So, George did say he respected women’s opinions on cruising. What George meant by his “we should not be taking questions like this” comment, I think, was that he considers the risks (health and personal safety) he takes when cruising are much, much lower than the risks that straight people, and straight *women* in particular, take when they socialise in bars and nightclubs (because of violence, and because of drugs like rohypnol). To make an analogy – it’s like a motorcyclist who doesn’t wear a helmet, criticising a car driver for not wearing a seatbelt.

    Apologies if you find my tone patronising. That’s not the intended tone.

    As for changing my tune – I don’t think I have. I have always been positive about, and supportive of, George. I think some people (perhaps people that like to regard themselves as “true fans”) may have sometimes misunderstood my jokes as slagging him off, and regarded me as merely a “so-called fan”😉

    Another thing that may cause confusion is that I am not supportive of (and have often slagged off) his former worldwide manager, Andy Stephens. I think he has played a key role in damaging George’s career around the world – particularly around the release of Patience and since then. It seems George agrees with me – he has relieved Andy Stephens of all of his strategic responsibilities: for example in setting up George’s forthcoming European and US tours, and for promotion of the new greatest hits album. As far as I know (which isn’t much!), Andy Stephens is now responsible for: opening George’s mail; “getting him on Richard and Judy” when he gets upset; and generally doing the little things that George doesn’t want to do himself. Michael Lippman is the guy in charge at the moment, although for how much longer I don’t know. If Lippman fails to deliver on next year’s US tour, then he will be dropped too I should think. I’m not seeing that Lippman is making great progress on the US side of things, so he needs to get a move on.

  30. By the way, I meant to say thanks very much to everyone who is contributing to the comments section… whether you agree with me or not! I do appreciate you taking the time to read, and to post.

  31. Re, would you mind to tell us when you open a new love and sex forums? For the unfilled ones?

  32. Oh, I’ve been meaning to do this for some time now. As most of you know, Knobby has a blog too and she gives a really good analysis of the two televised interviews and what the lawsuit could mean. Many of you have probably already read it, but if not, you can go to: http://knobby.blogdrive.com/

  33. Hello to you all!
    I’m not English so let me start by appologising for my possible mistakes. My English is kinda rusty nowadays.
    I’ve been reading all your posts… all I care about really is GM… the rest means nothing to me. Libel and all that stuff, that’s just blablabla and things that make you waste time… and money, by the way. Like GM said “People, better let them do just what they will, for they will…” (Kissing a fool).
    As a 20 year fan I am worried about him. I seriously believe he’s into some kind of slow-suicidal-spiral. He needs a change of life, but noone except him will know it best and no, I’m not patronizing or whatever you call it. It’s called READING THE SIGNS.
    THIS DOESN’T MEAN I DISSAPROVE HIS BEHAVIOUR… who am I to do so… But I guess I should speak my mind on this… or rather, my heart. I’m going further than that. I’m going to the roots. If George was happy I seriosly believe he wouldn’t be cruising, or doing drugs, bumping cars, talking on public about sex all time (I would say “Sorry, but I’m not here to talk about that.”)… and why should Kenny be fine with it, seeing a pic on the news paper with GM leaving the park at 2am, with a dirty shirt on (yes, it was dirty in case you missed it) after shagging “a bush”?! I wouldn’t like it. Whenever my relationship is going through a bad time I talk with my partner and we sort things out, I don’t go out cruising… cause if I feel like getting someone else inside my panties it’s time to say goodbye… it’s called honesty. Noone talks about it but if Kenny does love George, as I hope he does, he wouldn’t be happy on sharing him with strangers, possibly getting AIDS like Anselmo did… I don’t know… I’m not gay and I’m a woman, so I’m not really enabled to speak with knowledge about these matters…
    By the way, I don’t think that Kenny loves George. He loves his money and the million quid gift, probably… Who in the world would have never heard of George Michael? Kenny won the lottery when they met. He wasn’t honest to George. And neither is George to himself. Kenny loves GM life and money, George loves having Kenny around mainly because Kenny brought him into life again after Anselmo, but he doesn’t feel fullfield with him… he looks at the mirror and sings “Strange baby, don’t you think I’m looking older?” and deep down he feels older and wants to kinda settle down a bit… but it’s been 10 years together, letting go isn’t easy… Here’s where the drugs come in… and bumping cars, and going on public eye day in – day out… while he talks about these accidents, scandals he doesn’t take the time he should to THINK. Or to make music…
    I miss you George… I still listen to Older and think it’s the best you’ve ever done… so honest and pure.
    He’s going through some painful time, surely. And I wish I could help. I won’t get distracted by news of the world… as I said, all I care about is George. And I know you do too.

  34. To Anselmo’s Love

    When did you get to personally know Kenny Goss? Because what you have written about him it would seem you have a personal, intimate knowledge of who he is. Do you also have intimate knowledge of his and George’s relationship to make statements that Kenny doesn’t love George and is using him? Whoa-good thing you didn’t put that in the press because George would sue you. And rightly so.

  35. Remarkable’s analysis of everything that happened in the last week or so beats Knobby’s, IMO. Like Suzy Q, I feel his posts are well thought out, logical and fact based.

  36. @Suzie Q

    OOOhhh come on…if you can’t read or understand, I may explain you that I was speaking my heart out… this is what I FEEL, and I said “(… if Kenny loves George, as I hope he does,…”. I’ve got nothing against him, if he makes George happy, than I’m happy too… but it doesn’t look like he does. This is my opinion. Maybe your culture isn’t the same as mine, but in my culture we are allowed to speak out our opinions… just as you speak out yours… It’s called DEMOCRACY and DIALOGUE. I’m not a journalist (Thank God!), this is not a newspaper, I never said I knew any of the people ( but I never said that I didn’t also… keep on guessing Suzie…), I just said that this is what I feel is going on. Or am I not allowed to say anything?

    And yes, the Remarkable Blog is AMAZING. Accurate and updated.

  37. Re: Anselmo’s Love

    That’s right, this is a blog, not a newspaper, and we are not journalists, we’re just people voicing our own opinions and intuitions. Express yourself as much as you like Anselmo’s Love, most of us here are used to democratic ways and come from democratic countries too.

    My last word on the media lawsuits: As much as I hate to say it, GM may win the battle … but will he win the war?

  38. “Responding to tabloids is like punching Jell-O.”

    Re: Anselmo’s love
    Your comments about whether Kenny Goss “really” loves George Michael are way out of line whoever you are.

    Re: Yogchick
    Why don’t you get your own blog?

  39. RE: AA

    THere’s going to be diversity of opinion here and, since George Michael is not a living science experiment, speculation and impressions.

    Instead of telling people they are way out of line or telling them to get their own blog, maybe you should accept that not everyone is like you. Otherwise, you can always go back to George Michael Forums where you and your kind are used to dominating endless threads with inane blathering highly decorated with endless emoticons.

  40. The last time I looked this was Remarkable’s blog not the “Yogchick shoots off her very big mouth” blog.

  41. MEOW! Funny, I don’t hear Remarkable complaining, in fact I think it’s quite the opposite. In case I’m wrong, Remarkable, how do you feel?

  42. Amen;)
    Just read on GM’s forum you did take AA’s advice on board then, Yogchick/Patty? Got some competition there, Remarkable😛

  43. What Lizzy is referring to is my fetus-status blog called Yogchick. I link to Remarkable’s Buzzin Blog and to Knobby’s Blog … so it’s not so much competition but community. I want my blog to be my own personal opinions on GM with people’s outraged comments back, as well as support and interesting debate. But it won’t be as factual as Remarkable’s or as diverse as Knobby’s. You can have a look at: http://www.yogchick.blogspot.com

  44. Well, i AM a gay guy and i DO have a problem with “crusing” because it just isnt necessary anymore in the 21st Century…George and many of the other 35+ year old men who cruise in bushes come from a time when being gay just wasnt open/accepted…so the only place you could fulfill your sexual appetite was by being sneaky and doing lewd stuff outside…but in the year 2006, George can meet plenty of gay guys elsewhere to get his rocks of…preferrably places indoors…wouldnt it be nice if he went out to a club and picked up a man over a few drinks at the bar and then took him to a nice hotel and they bumped uglies together there? Cruising/cottaging is such an “old hat” gay practice that all fags under 35 think is disgusting and pointless in this day and age…

  45. Quote Yogchick – “Thanks Remarkable. I have hate mail already!”

    If that was directed at me Patty, it is NOT hatemail I have posted on your blog, just a 5 minute attempt at slightly sardonic humour, which you seem to have misunderstood. I do NOT hate anyone, and also do not know you as a person (as you do not know me).

    However, given the amount of discussion that surrounds people like GM, maybe now you can now understand how pointless it is for you to throw suggestions at George, as you have had the exact same directed back at you (intended to be ironically sardonic) and judging by your reaction, you did not care for it one iota (none of which was intended as any kind of personal attack on you, as I do NOT know you, so that is impossible).

    I merely mirrored your 10 point ‘plan’ to George, back toward you in a very generalised manner. Its not pleasant though, is it? Imagine how he must feel…(accepting that he probably doesn’t read much now of course).

    I reiterate, I do NOT hate you, and can only presume to form an opinion on your output from the aforementioned ‘controversial’ piece that has been doing the rounds in GM land, as well as on your own well publicised Blog. If you just want people to agree with you, then that should be stated. Otherwise, the internet is often an arena where disagreements/misunderstandings can occur, especially in GM land, as no doubt some people will agree! the emotional intelligence level seemingly being that bit higher than most other places. Apart from those on GMF of course, which I think we may agree, is seemingly some kind of laa laa land for devoted GM fanatics..😉

    So I wish you no hard feeling, and say good luck with your blog Patty.🙂

    regards

    mark

  46. Thanks Marg ..errr, Mark. But I think I know more about GM than you do about me, so aren’t our 10 TIPS lists a bit like comparing apples and oranges? Your list is sardonic and intentionally bitchy; mine was well-intended (coming from a good place) and earnest. That is the difference.

  47. Jeeze,Yogchick…eerrr, Patty. Can you lighten up a bit? Mark has taken the trouble to explain himself elaborately, which he didn’t have to do at all, but he did! And here you are throwing it back in his face.Anyway, Mark, your intelligent witty posts Patty obviously doesn’t understand or appreciate… So pointless comes to mind indeed….Too bad.

  48. Yogchick, funny how you keep saying you “know” more about George. No, you don’t. You (and that goes for all of us, for that matter) don’t know anything about him, other than the stuff we read in the tabloids and hear on TV and the radio. And it’s just hilarious to see how you keep saying you want “discussions” and to hear “all different opinions” when you just slate everyone who doesn’t agree with you and throw all this sarcasm around. You wouldn’t recognize a good discussion if it knocked on your shoulder and hit you in the face.

  49. When I say I “know more about George Michael” than Mark knows about me, well, it’s true. I read George Michael’s interviews, watch his interviews on tv. So I have certain strong impressions and opinions. I’m not against people having a different opinion. I’m against people being sardonic towards me for expressing my own. I haven’t slated anyone who disagrees with me — just returned their nastiness with the same. I’m returning sarcasm for sarcasm. Go back and read some of the threads. People who express certain thoughts are being told “to mind their own business” (nice huh) or “get their own blog” — it isn’t civil at all. I have never said anything like that. I challenge you to find ONE INSTANCE where I slate someone for having a different opinion. If I was nasty, it’s because I was told to go get my own blog or whatever, but it wasn’t because of a disagreement of the lawsuits, the music, or any subject discussed at the time.

  50. P.S. — And personal remarks like that last line are hardly becoming. I could sling back, but what would be the point? Hopefully your reply to me won’t be sarcastic and nasty; hopefully it won’t rely pitifully on the old “you don’t like other people’s opinions” excuse.

  51. Yogchick/Patty, you are the one who started with the personal remarks calling people “faghags” and “hogs” all over every GM board. You reap what you sow. (How old are you anyway?)

  52. What do you mean “all over every GM board” — I only did it at Planet George, which is replete with people who have been kicked off GMF for voicing an opinion. As for the faghag remark (and I count myself one as I said already) — I made a distinction between smart faghags and dumb ones.

  53. @2FUNKY

    You said,

    “Cruising/cottaging is such an “old hat” gay practice that all fags under 35 think is disgusting and pointless in this day and age…”

    I hear what you’re saying. I can believe that what you say is true of cottaging, but it’s a pretty minor point, isn’t it? Lots of gay men under 35 think that anonymous “no-strings” sex is great, even if they have their encounters in the toilet cubicles in nightclubs, as opposed to the toilet cubicles of public rest rooms.

    I don’t believe what you say about cruising though. Having sex in the open air is something that is common among people of all ages and sexualities (Hmmmm… not sure I phrased that last bit quite right, but ya know what I mean!).

  54. Yogchick Says:
    August 8th, 2006 at 1:24 pm

    What do you mean “all over every GM board” — I only did it at Planet George, which is replete with people who have been kicked off GMF for voicing an opinion.

    And what about on the official forum Patty? You were totally OFfensive and DEfensive over there too. And you’re still doing it now. Slagging off other forums etc. Tut tut tut

  55. I NEVER slagged off the Official GEorge Michael Forum. And I don’t have a problem with Planet George or REmarkable. I had a problem with certain posters on GMF and with the fact that it was always the same 4-12 posters out of, like, thousands of member.

    On the Official George Michael Forum, I vehemently disagreed with a certain person I’d already disagreed with on GMF when I was still a member. Basically it was a continuation of the disagreement we’d already had on GMF before I got booted off.

    And lastly, I apologized days ago to everybody on Official George Michael Forum for my testiness and defensiveness. They know it won’t happen again, so it’s no big deal.

    The irony is that I’m being told by certain people that I should not speak about something and then I’m being told by those very same people that I don’t respect diversity of opinion because I resent being told that I shouldn’t speak about something.

  56. I didnt say you slagged off the official forum. I said ON it… about how offensive u were etc.
    You’re saying PG is replete with people who have been kicked off GMF for voicing their opinions. I’m sure there are a lot of active members on PG who were never involved with GMF or who are happy to be on both.
    The reason I mentioned your actions on official was because you said that you had only slagged people off on PG… I know you apologised days ago. Rightly so. Most people didn’t have a clue where your attitude came from on that thread.
    I agree with your comment about GMF – they have very few regular posters out of over 2,000 members. I think that happens in most forums though? I’ll say no more about GMF – don’t want to be ‘branded’ LMAO.
    I hear what you’re saying about the irony of this situation, but maybe it’s time to just let this all go. You have your opinion, a very strong, heartfelt one and other people have theirs. Live and let live. Or something like that?

  57. Remarkable Said: “Lots of gay men under 35 think that anonymous “no-strings” sex is great, even if they have their encounters in the toilet cubicles in nightclubs, as opposed to the toilet cubicles of public rest rooms.”

    …there is actually a growing conservatism among gay guys under 35…I mean, guys of George’s era were only really concerned with “liberation” and being out and proud and allowed to fuck as many guys as they want…now we are seeing gays campaigning for marriage which is the epitome of monogamy…but you’re right still that some guys will always be happy to have a quickie in some nightclub toilet…

    Remarkable says: “I don’t believe what you say about cruising though. Having sex in the open air is something that is common among people of all ages and sexualities (Hmmmm… not sure I phrased that last bit quite right, but ya know what I mean!).”

    I agree it’s common on both sides of the fence….but I dont think ANYONE, gay or straight, should be having sex in public! LOL…maybe I’m a prude…but I just think it is gross and unneccesary…

  58. 2FUNKY says: ”but I dont think ANYONE, gay or straight, should be having sex in public! LOL…maybe I’m a prude…but I just think it is gross and unneccesary…”

    OMG, you ARE a prude!!! LOL

    Mind you, most people who enjoy George’s music have a prudish/conservative side to them next to all that laissez-faire mentality. It’s just that some happen to hide it better than others.

  59. Hello Everyone,
    It’s great to read your comments, I learn a lot from you.Your discussion above I find so thought-provoking that even though it seems like a by now closed topic, I would like to comment on it. Please excuse me, I would avoid quoting the sentences I refer to, simply because it would be too much.

    Before I start please let me say that I am fan for 20 years and am a straight, sometimes prud(ish) female.

    I agree with Remarkable that some gays, and for that matter also straights, being upset about GM’s cruising is rather strange, if not hypocritical. And the same stands for having sex in the open air, public places etc.
    Such things do happen, and I think much more often than people in our society dare to admit it. It’s enough to go for a company retreat to see people cheating and having one-night-stands with colleagues, or to go to a holiday resort where all sorts of people, sadly enough also beautiful young girls and boys, are hanging around ‘just to get laid’–wherever. About 8 years ago once I took a long walk with friends at 3 a.m. along the shores of Mallorca: you would not believe what a busy place it was, and it was only us feeling embarrassed…you know what I mean. I do not think things got more conservative since then.And this to a large extent is due to what the media suggests as cool or modern…

    The paper in concern ran a poll on the sexual desires of people in the summer, and surprise-surprise: I can’t recall the exact figures but at least about half of all men and women who answered did or would love to have sex outside. They even had a breakdown on the different categories: sea-shore, park and even one’s backyard. So, what blew my mind when hearing of the ‘GM in the park’ article (which I wanted to read through, that’s how I found the aforementioned poll) was: 1) they bash GM for supposedly doing something which a lot of other people, maybe even them as well, also do 2) what GM did or did not do only GM knows, and if he wants to keep a low profile on what had happened, he should have all the right to do so, as it is only his business and his life. And I think what the paper did was a misuse/abuse of freedom of the press, irrespective whether what they wrote was true or not.

    I think when it comes to someone in the entertainment industry ‘any kind of publicity is good publicity’ is only true to a certain degree, as if they keep bashing somebody, then the person gets tired and the lies hurt twice as much. I do not know GM (wish I did!) but I think he is a sensitive person, and even if he doesn’t show the negative press must really hurt him. Why can’t they just leave him alone?

    Anselmo’s love:
    I very much agree to several things to what you wrote and I think I understand your feelings and I think you really care about GM and I also understand that you only wrote down your own feelings, you did not want to judge anyone. However, please let me make some points to what you wrote:
    You wrote that you thought Kenny did not love GM. Well, I think this is a bit daring statement as I think, but I may be wrong, the only person who knows if and why Kenny loves GM is Kenny, himself.And I think GM feels if he is being loved-which I hope so.And it is again, only their business. I find it is very risky to tell people how one feels about their relationship because these comments usually hurt- if they are right: because of that, if they are wrong: because of the fact because they hurt someone.
    Also, and I’m not sure if I am able to express what I want to say: sometimes the fact that one can pour his/her love on someone is enough. Not anyone, but someone. And I think for GM this someone was Kenny.So he is, indeed, amazing.

    As to what you say about what Kenny would need to do if he really loved GM, well, I think sometimes there is a difference between loving someone and loving someone the right way. This latter one is much harder to find out and to practice (or at least for me, and I did fail at it several times:(). I also would have some ideas how to cheer GM up when he’s feeling down, but I’m not sure if he’d buy into my ideas:-D.

    What I am sure of though is that if he reads the constructive and caring comments on Remarkable’s remarkably remarkable site (:)), he must be happy and feel loved.

  60. Pingback: Remarkable’s Buzzin’ Blog » Blog Archive » Robbie Agrees With George & Remarkable

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